Interview with David Gilling, coordinator of the AECOP Ethics Committee
This week I want to share with you a new interview, in this case an interview with David Gilling. Ethics is a fundamental pillar in the exercise of executive coaching. I would like to share with you on this occasion the reflections and the conversation I had with David Gilling, coordinator of the Ethics Committee at Aecop, (Spanish Association of Executive Coaching). I hope you enjoy it and find it interesting 🙂
David Gilling is Director of PS|CO (Psychology|Coaching). He has a degree in Psychology and a Master’s degree in Clinical Psychology from the UNAM (National Autonomous University of Mexico). With the support of ITESM-CEM (Instituto Tecnológico y Estudios Superiores de Monterrey- Campus Estado de México) and as a member of the Business School of this institution, he completed a doctoral thesis at the University of Valencia in the field of business ethics.
In addition to his experience as a university professor and psychotherapist since the early eighties, in the last 20 years David has specialized in the field of organizational development as a consultant, trainer and coach of work teams in different branches of the business environment, NGOs and public organizations in Mexico and Spain. He is currently the Coordinator of the Ethics Committee of Aecop.).
Interview with David Gilling
Q: What would you say business ethics is and, above all, what is it used for?
A: Business ethics consists of the discovery and application of the principles, values and norms shared with a pluralistic society. This means that society has ethical values, which are transferred to the business environment. We can say that we have principles such as freedom, equality, respect, and we adapt these to the business environment. In a country like Spain we can say, for example, that the principle of “equality” is a socially recognized principle, it is recognized in society, therefore, the company takes this principle to its ethics and gives security to those who are involved with it, (not only to employees, but also to customers, suppliers, that is, all their stakeholders), that they will respect this principle. Here we enter into what it is for. Business ethics implies that the company respects these general business principles and also adds its own, (that is, those that have to do with its products or services, or with the specific situations of how it treats its customers, for example), so the company must take this into account also for each category, (values and norms).
Q: What do you mean by those categories or levels?
A: Principles are universal, and values are how that principle applies to that company. It’s like an equalizer: the principle is frequency, value is how you adjust it, and the norm is how specifically that company understands that principle. The rule is like a rule of how the company understands that principle in a concrete way. The code of ethics that a company is going to build supposes, for example, that if a supplier or a customer arrives, they will understand that this is the way in which the company is going to behave and they will observe if the company is consistent with what it says. Therefore, this code of ethics helps the company to have a brand, to strengthen the concept of brand, to give prestige to the company having a brand.
Q: Would this be one of the reasons why it now seems to be so fashionable or why companies talk about ethics so much?
A: This has been analyzed a lot lately, but the fundamental reason is that now we are all more visible and that is why business ethics is more important. 40 years ago it was not so well known whether a company was ethical or not. Now it can no longer be hidden, there is greater visibility and attention to social responsibility, there are ecological regulations, laws that if they are not complied with are denounced and publicly pointed out. Not only for big brands or companies, but also for the corner bar. That’s what ethics is for us now, we’re seeing it everywhere and it’s a code of behavior.
Ethics are essential to live together
Q: What is the difference between this ethical code and morality? Is it the same?
A: In colloquial language it has several meanings and the one that hurts us the most is that of “double standards”. In the theoretical sense, there should be no difference between ethics and morality. Business morality is restricted within the company, it is in its culture, it has to do with its norms and values. In theory, it would have to be aligned with business ethics. But when we talk about morality it is because there is “double standards”, because there are dark areas where one thing is said and another is done. Morality must be aligned with ethics.
Follow the interview with David Gilling
Q: As you say, ethics in the company involves codes of conduct, with its suppliers, customers, employees, its environment… But how often does it happen today that this code of ethics does not coincide with the real behavior of that company and is only taken as an external image?
A: I think it is important for us to know that today the way a company behaves will depend on the way in which it is conceived by those who run it, who gives birth to it. If there are good intentions in its conception, the company will be impregnated with those good intentions and will share it with its employees. But when a company is not focused on this, it is also noticeable. Ethical codes are usually born in two ways. One way is that the entrepreneur takes the feeling of what is happening and invites everyone to build the code of ethics. The other way is that the employer pays for consultants to “make” the code of ethics, without feeling it, without believing it, and then they “impose” it on the workers. They do not want to listen to their employees, or share it with them, but they want to pass the “procedure” because they are required to do so for quality issues, for example. The difference lies in whether it is something that comes from us, that we want and what we believe in, or it is something that we live as an obligation and that we feel as an imposition and we are going to impose it in turn on the teams. I believe that today, fortunately, more and more companies understand that creating codes of ethics implies involving their employees. In the first option, the ethics committee functions to accompany and guide in good work. In the second option, the ethics committee simply has a sanctioning role. They are two opposite poles and both tendencies currently exist.
Q: In an Association like Aecop, in David Gilling’s opinion, how important is it that this Code of Ethics exists to be applied in the exercise of executive coaching?
A: I think we have to clarify that the code was born from a consultation, it was asked for about two and a half years what the associate coaches wanted that code to be and it is also something alive, it can be modified. On the other hand, we always have an alternative to work with aspects that we feel we are not respecting. If we see that we comply with the code of ethics and are aligned, we are working well, it is a way of sharing in our community a “good work”. If one day you make a mistake, you make a mistake, the important thing is that you discount it and correct that compartment. The most important thing is that everyone becomes aware of what I have failed and that they correct it. I’ll give you an example: imagine that you have accepted a process of accompaniment in which you thought you could do it and as you go through the process you realize that it is more complex than you thought at the beginning and that you have to call another coach or other coaches, but you don’t, thinking “I can, I do it better alone”. You fool yourself into thinking you can, maybe because you don’t have a budget, or because of a lack of humility, pride, etc. and suddenly you have a big mess and the customer is unhappy. In that self-criticism you reflect and realize that you could have stopped it but you didn’t. That is the reflection and learning that the code of ethics invites you to do, (principle of humility, professionalism, etc.).
Q: What are the principles of Aecop’s code of ethics?
A: There are four: respect, trust, commitment and professionalism. These are the four fundamental pillars. Respect is something basic, of course, in our profession. Within trust there are values such as confidentiality, the way we treat information, for example. The commitment implies that what I promise I will fulfill. In professionalism we are committed to staying trained, to knowing well the techniques and tools we use.
Then there are six values: dignity, integrity, honesty, security, dialogue and reliability. These values result from specifying the previous 4 columns a little more and they are all very important.
Q: David, at Aecop there is a Code of Ethics, a Code of Ethics and a Manual of Good Practices, what is the difference between them?
A: The Code of Ethics is aimed at marking our personal way of acting, each Aecop coach assumes that they will respect this for themselves and we all share it. The Code of Ethics is where we all take care of the actions to give prestige to the profession, it is what we all manage the “good work” in the discipline of coaching. Deontology is aimed at ensuring that each professional in each area does not only see for themselves but also for their guild, it is how we take care of our guild. I give you an example within that code of ethics, where you can find, for example, the guidelines on how to handle agreements with coachees or clients. That does not mean that we give the format of the agreement, but that we offer the principles that in general terms a contract must have and we see the criteria with which that agreement must be built. These specific formats, for example, would already be part of what is the Manual of Good Practices. We are currently working on this Manual, to make it more concrete and practical, so that it can provide guidance on how specific cases and situations have been resolved in practice.
Q: How should we act ethically responsible in the face of the exercise of bad practices in our profession?
A: I think that sometimes in these situations we may not dare to communicate them, because we think it is a complaint. But we must see it as a source of analysis and reflection and see what debate is generated about these situations in order to learn from it. For example, when a coach for the promotion of his work uses the brand of clients with whom he has worked, for example, and presents himself as a “coach” of those companies, that, for example, if the company has not authorized you, is something that cannot be done. This is malpractice, perhaps simple, apparently, but if you think about it, the principle of confidentiality and discretion in the face of customer information is being violated. There are varying degrees of malpractice, depending on the intent. If it has been, for example, an omission, a mistake, not paying attention, it would be the lowest scale of “bad intention” and at the other extreme would be performing an action being fully aware of the results and consequences of my act and with the intention of harming the other.
Q: David Gilling, what are the next steps regarding ethics in executive coaching?
A: There is still a long way to go that we are building little by little. We are on the path to becoming aware that ethics is something that serves us, that helps us in our daily lives by reflecting on our practices. This reflection is going to take us some time. This is what we usually do in coaching supervisions. This practice leads us to reflect with self-criticism and question several issues, including ethics. Every time we reflect on why we do each step, we think about the principles and values that have led us to make the decision to act in the way we have done. And if we identify malpractice in our actions, we should learn so as not to repeat it again and continue on our path of evolution and transformation and evolution as coaches.
David Gilling, coordinator of the AECOP Ethics Committee
Q: What else would you like to add or comment on what we are talking about?
A: The idea that it is feasible to have ethics without morals. It is a reflection to which my teacher, Adela Cortina, led me with a phrase from Kant that I now have in mind, “ethics is not morality, even in a people of demons there is ethics”. Ethics is good for us to be able to live together. This is the essential thing that I would like us to stay, ethics is essential to live together.
And you, what do you think of these ideas that the interview with David Gilling provides? What comments would you like to provide?
